Comments on: PHP Frameworks and Scaling http://www.nodroidsallowed.com/2008/12/19/php-frameworks-and-scaling/ Practical techniques for raising a well-adjusted database Thu, 10 Jun 2010 01:20:24 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: vdibart http://www.nodroidsallowed.com/2008/12/19/php-frameworks-and-scaling/comment-page-1/#comment-377 vdibart Sat, 10 Jan 2009 14:27:46 +0000 http://www.nodroidsallowed.com/?p=28#comment-377 True. Similarly it's worth considering the cost of other "invisibles", such as maintenance cost, learning curve (for new developers on the project), and application security (e.g. SQL injection attacks). A good framework addresses each of these issues. Don't get me wrong, I'm don't believe everyone should be using a framework. I generally despise Java frameworks. But I also think most sites could be well-served by them because most sites never end up having to scale to the point where it becomes an issue. True. Similarly it’s worth considering the cost of other “invisibles”, such as maintenance cost, learning curve (for new developers on the project), and application security (e.g. SQL injection attacks). A good framework addresses each of these issues. Don’t get me wrong, I’m don’t believe everyone should be using a framework. I generally despise Java frameworks. But I also think most sites could be well-served by them because most sites never end up having to scale to the point where it becomes an issue.

]]> By: Steve Clay http://www.nodroidsallowed.com/2008/12/19/php-frameworks-and-scaling/comment-page-1/#comment-376 Steve Clay Sat, 10 Jan 2009 14:18:08 +0000 http://www.nodroidsallowed.com/?p=28#comment-376 Of course the other cost, which is very big and real, is that of migrating to a framework when additional needs arise. Businesses that can't afford to have developers on staff should probably always demand at least a basic CMS. If they're lucky enough to have site performance as an issue, front end tweaks like Minify are easy to slap in place and switching hosts is easier than migrating content from a homebrew system/flat files. Of course the other cost, which is very big and real, is that of migrating to a framework when additional needs arise. Businesses that can’t afford to have developers on staff should probably always demand at least a basic CMS. If they’re lucky enough to have site performance as an issue, front end tweaks like Minify are easy to slap in place and switching hosts is easier than migrating content from a homebrew system/flat files.

]]> By: vdibart http://www.nodroidsallowed.com/2008/12/19/php-frameworks-and-scaling/comment-page-1/#comment-370 vdibart Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:20:38 +0000 http://www.nodroidsallowed.com/?p=28#comment-370 Point taken Rasmus. This is along the lines of what I was assuming you meant, and it's obviously inarguable. Any framework in any environment incurs a penalty. The bigger the framework, the bigger the penalty. Thanks for your comments. I'm honored to have you visit my blog and consider my writing. Point taken Rasmus. This is along the lines of what I was assuming you meant, and it’s obviously inarguable. Any framework in any environment incurs a penalty. The bigger the framework, the bigger the penalty. Thanks for your comments. I’m honored to have you visit my blog and consider my writing.

]]> By: Rasmus http://www.nodroidsallowed.com/2008/12/19/php-frameworks-and-scaling/comment-page-1/#comment-369 Rasmus Sat, 20 Dec 2008 15:49:54 +0000 http://www.nodroidsallowed.com/?p=28#comment-369 The entire point was that people need to understand the cost of their convenience. The "Hello World" example shows the cost of the framework if you don't use any of the features in the framework itself. As you start to use more and more features, the cost is reduced. If you use every single feature, then you have the perfect framework. However, in reality people only use a fraction of a general purpose framework, yet they incur the overhead of the entire framework. What I was trying to get across in the talk was the methodology by which you can measure that cost and make an informed decision when it comes to trading off convenience against performance. There is nothing wrong with using frameworks, but there is something seriously wrong with making the decision to use one without understanding the cost penalty. The entire point was that people need to understand the cost of their convenience. The “Hello World” example shows the cost of the framework if you don’t use any of the features in the framework itself. As you start to use more and more features, the cost is reduced. If you use every single feature, then you have the perfect framework.

However, in reality people only use a fraction of a general purpose framework, yet they incur the overhead of the entire framework. What I was trying to get across in the talk was the methodology by which you can measure that cost and make an informed decision when it comes to trading off convenience against performance. There is nothing wrong with using frameworks, but there is something seriously wrong with making the decision to use one without understanding the cost penalty.

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